#86 Thurmond Moore

On Episode 86 of the More Than The Scoreboard Podcast, Coach Corbin Smith sits down with veteran football coach & current Castle View HS (CO) Defensive Coordinator, Thurmond Moore, whose coaching career has spanned more than four decades across the high school, collegiate, professional, and NFL Europe levels. A former San Jose State player, Moore has coached at programs including Colorado State, Syracuse, UCLA, and Buffalo while mentoring NFL standouts such as Dwight Freeney and Joey Porter. In this conversation, Coach Moore shares timeless wisdom on leadership, accountability, tackling fundamentals, faith, and the lasting impact coaches can have on the lives of young athletes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

You know, it's it's interesting because like we're wearing helmets, now we're in first aid in pads. We um half the guys went on vacation, not half, but uh, you know, enough of the important guys went on vacation last week. And that was cool, you know, because they gotta get their family time in. But, you know, it's like you have uh 70% of your team that's able to practice and pull pads and you know, and that type of deal. But you know, first thing is nobody got injured, so that's right, that's a big deal, right? And uh good.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

And of course, uh, we'll watch the film and get better off of it. Good. Well, I'll go ahead and introduce you, Coach, so we can get going. Sure. Um, Coach Thurman Moore, I know there's probably a lot of people that that know you. Um, this is a true blessing and honor for me, honestly. And and I know we spoke last week, but it's kind of funny what happened from my standpoint. You're currently the defensive coordinator at Castle View High School in Castle Rock, Colorado. Um my stepson just got, and I told you this, but just for the listeners, my stepson just got done playing there, just graduated. Um, he's going to NAU. Um, we're moving back to Arizona. And when I saw on Facebook that you came over here, I was like, and then the word started spreading amongst those younger kids that that that are playing for you. And I was excited. I said, Oh, I said, do you might want to do your research on Coach Moore? And they're like, we have, we have. So um, you know, you've been a lot of places, Coach. You've seen a lot, you've experienced a lot from your playing days at San Jose State, and then you've coached in NFL, you've coached in NFL Europe, you've coached at the FBS level. I still call it Division I. It is hard for me to say. Is it you too, right? You've coached at the Division I AA level, you've coasted numerous high schools, some great high schools, Valor, Chandler. Now you're at Castleview, um, Brophy. Um, so welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Thank you. I really appreciate it. I mean, uh, it is a blessing. Uh, you know, it's interesting that the journey you take, right? Um, is it funny enough, right? You're a coach's son. So my coach, my son called me today, and he's a coach at Portland State, and they're taking a nine-hour uh car ride from Portland down to Sacramento for a two-day camp that he says we'll probably not sign anybody, but he's gonna be in a car for nine hours with the office of coordinator. And, you know, one of the best things about the, you know, those kind of camps in the summer are are the relationships that you built before and you get a chance to see them. So, but it was nice because you know, anytime you get a call from your son, it's always a blessing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, no. Well, I didn't realize this. I didn't I knew you were at Colorado State, but I had to put everything together. So we coached against each other. I was coaching at I was coaching the tight ends and tackles in special teams of Missouri, okay. And you were at Colorado State when we played. Yeah, so we sure did. We coached against each other, and then uh you you coached against my my middle son Braxton, who who was a linebacker parry when you met Chandler. Um, and then we were talking about Ricky. I mean, it just small Ricky Hunley, just small, small world. This this coaching world, isn't it? Old Ricky. Old Ricky. That's about what you got, Rick. If you're listening, old Ricky.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Oh, yeah, we still love you.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Exactly. Um, let me let me start off. I just want to start off. I want to, and this is just a straightforward question. Yeah. How how do you, when it comes to leadership, how how do you coach leadership? How do you teach it?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Well, you know, so what's interesting, right? Especially in today's times and everything else, but leadership comes from, I believe, where your faith is and your base of your faith is. You know, everybody, well, I'm a I'm a child of God, so that's where my base comes from. And so one of the things that I try to do is make sure I try to treat people like I would like to be treated. And then the other thing is too, is that because I don't work for command, I work for for God, our Lord, um I'm extremely motivated all the time. And I and more my check is is that, you know, and I try to tell kids, hey, look in the mirror. Did you do the best you can't could that day? And if you don't do that, then you know you're selling yourself short. But um, like even, you know, at Castleview, as I come in and uh and I'm working with Frank Martin, who's an amazing man and person, and um, you know, trying to develop leaders, and part of that is is one, right? No surprises, you know. So you tell, you know, hey, tell me what's going on. Um and the second thing is too, is be accountable. Just be accountable. So, you know, I figure you get those two things, those surprises and accountability, and then you work on your toughness, and that's making your mind and your body do something that you really wouldn't usually do. I think all those things count. All those things count. So now you kind of put all that into one package.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

We've we've talked a lot, I've talked to a lot of guys on this on this podcast about accountability. And everybody kind of says the same things, but I always like to get you know every everyone's perspective on it. And what is it when you when you talk to the kids, when you talk to um the defensive staff, when you talk to to Frank Martin, the head coach, and you guys have the discussions on leadership and accountability, specifically accountability, um what do you tell, what do you tell those guys? Where does accountability start? How does it start? And then what does it look like?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

So uh where it starts, I think, is like your word is your bond, right? If you say you're gonna do something, you do it. Um and you know, a lot of times, gosh, and and I coach threw this at me one time and it stuck with me and resonates with me. You know, it's either taught or allowed. And um, you know, and I've gotten a few arguments with coaches because I'll say that to them and go, no, no, no, no. I said, yes, yes, yes, yes, because either you're teaching it or you're allowing it. But what happens as far as accountability is concerned, if you are allowing it, then you can't say you're teaching it. That's pretty cut and dry, right? You know, like you know, one of the things about uh, you know, developing culture is you know, guys running on and off the field, right? You can't sit there and turn your eyes at somebody and allow them to walk out the field and think you're teaching hustle. You know, like for us, um, and every place I've gone, I think as a coordinator, the two things I say that I'm responsible for uh hustle and then tackling. You know, of course, schemes and everything else are gonna be okay. You know, we're gonna work that out. But those are the two things that we either are gonna allow, okay, or we're gonna teach. And we have to teach them hustle because it's something that nature, you know, I think naturally people don't want to do. And then the other thing we're tackling, right? You know, a thousand reps, like one of the things that we're involved in is that I know we can't, before, right, it'd be tackled, just go ahead and take a guy down, whatever. But now it's like, how can you get yourself in the position to tackle? And then how can you prove it on film without taking somebody down? And for us, you know, we do a tackling circuit, we have a couple of them. But then I grade every time they get ready in the position to make a play, you know, like today, we didn't uh, you know, take anybody down, but I can see same size foot, same size shoulder. Did you get your eyes the ball level? Did you uh uh same, you know, uh did you get your guns in your holsters? That's what we call it as far as preload. Did you when you shot your uppercut, did you get your hands below his knees? So now you're hitting on the rise, did you roll your hips? But I can do that without them even touching it. And they go like, coach, you know, and they asked me, how do you see all that? I said, very easily, you know. Yeah. And then, you know, for the coaches, I mean, hey, take it back to the drill, you know, because we have, you know, six stations in our stuff, and all we're working on each one of those little things, you know. So um I think all those things go together with.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

You know, it's funny you said guns and holsters. I used to always, and and maybe this is just because we're older, and the guys I learned for from were guys your age, you know, my dad and and uh guys younger and guys guys your age is. I mean, that's that's where I learned it. And I was fortunate, I think, having been a GA for a season, um, and and seeing how, you know, I'd always seen it because I was a coach's kid, whether I was running around, you know, being a pain in the butt or playing. Um, but I didn't really see it, you know, the repetitiveness. And that was something that with my tight ends that every single day it was uttered. We said hands and holster. Right. But but but we were taught to see, we were taught to evaluate everything from from the from the simplest step, you know, the first two steps, you know, body position, leverage, hands, everything, eyes. And um, and I know that the younger, a lot of younger coaches, um, I I think at the high school level I can say this, but I think guys are more wrapped up in the schemes and doing a bunch of different things, you know, schematically speaking, and and um, you know, again, I I mean, unless your kids are hearing the same fundamentals and the same words or the same language from all the coaches, um, it doesn't matter what kind of scheme you have. Right. Because they're not gonna be sound enough to so how how do you get, because I know a lot of those defensive coaches over there, um, all good men, how how do you get them, how do you coach them on, listen, we all gotta talk the same language. So, because these kids are gonna learn that much faster if we all speak the same language.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

You know, it's it's uh got you know, and like you made the point, as a young coach, you hear it, right? And um, what I do with the coaches, we all sit down and I take them through it. Um I was really fortunate. Uh, you know, I coached at U Soleil, and then, you know, in my journey, uh I I wound up not being there and and actually uh we got fired, 10 and 2, we got fired, and that happens. But um I wanted to um um I said, well, I went to high school, coached adorns neutron, you know, that Trinity League crazy thing. Yeah, and uh be honest with you, uh my son, now this is a great story, Corgan, he goes, Dad, when you said I was this year old, I think he was 10, I can play tackle football. And I said, Okay. So I went out and I watched the practice, and it was bull in the ring, it was no teaching, it was just, you know, dads trying to coach and and and kids trying to play. I came back, I told him no. You know, that didn't set too well. That's the same young man that called me today. He was like, You said I get I said, but I just can't trust him. So um, strange story. Um I wrestled, I could not sleep. God was telling me you need to teach tackling. And so I went on a journey. I started a company called Tackling Academy, and part of it was getting all the coaches to say that exactly what you're talking about. Same phrases, guns in your holsters, hands above your eyes, eyes on your hands would get your head in the right position. And for about, I'm gonna say about maybe five years, I had this company and I and it and in LA when I first started off, it was amazing. Um, you know, we would do so. I would get all my defensive coaches, we would do in June, we'd do three camps, in July we'd three camps, I'd throw them down some money, I'd feed them, and we would get kids, and then then the money had so we did the first year. The second year, like we'd go back to some places and kids, kids, we'd go, I'd say, hey, show me your hands above your head, eyes or hands, and they'd throw their hands above their head, and they'd throw their hips. But in that time, Corbin, um, you know, like an ex uh a lawyer reached out to me, hey, can you watch this film and tell me what you see on this film? So I did that. And the more I kind of got into it, I wound up going back to Boston and meeting with uh Chris Newinsky of Sports Legacy Institute. And that was a time of uh, you know, uh chronic traumatics and techniques. In fact, I spoke globally. We had partnered with them, and it was just amazing. So part of my thing with my coaches trying to get them to say the same thing. One of the things I try to equate to them, you know, it's just like breakdown, right? If you went to a kid say breakdown, they could think it could be film breakdown, they could think it'd be, you know, uh, I know I went to like New York and I said something about breakdown, the guy did a breakdown, he got on spoon on his back and said, Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

And so um if you said breakdown, if you just walked up to me and said, Corbin, break down, I would get down in a hitting position. That's what I would do. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

And so that's what we call it, shimmy, right? Because now I'm feeding parallel, 46 instead. So you don't get into all that the the grammar part of it. But um, and I just told him, you know, like you have to be really, really effusive with your words when you talk to kids, especially during games, right? Yeah, like now, our key thing is same side foot, same side shoulder, because once you go opposite foot and shoulder, you got no power. And so um I just you know, one, I think it's that is the part when you're talking about leadership, right? Being a leader, you gotta have a plan. You gotta have a distinctive plan on how you want your message to get across. And then with the kids, like we started off at Castleview, we started off in um January when I got there, we're during February, and we talked about what's a savior cat tackle. So I broke it down to each point, you know, like so for, you know, what's the safest what's the safest way to finish? When you're not gonna hit with your head, if you hit with your chest, you know, you're gonna get more power, right? We have a great this uh Olympic program, and they use all kinds of tweens and snatches, so now you're using the hips. But, you know, just giving them distinctive words, and then you know, I've kind of been I get I take the point of hey, you're gonna say these words, don't say the other ones because we've, you know, you don't want to confuse a kid. I just you know one of my things I used to say a long time ago, it'd be like you're telling a kid, hey, run a curl flat route and your and your other guy saying run the 63. Well, yeah, you know, it's you're telling the same thing, but you got a different language.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, and to uh I mean to us we know what we're talking about, but to the kids it's it's it's night and day, right? And you know, it's funny you tell that story about your son because I have a story like that too, where my dad always told me I was bugging him. He was the head coach of U of A. We were living in Tucson, I was about the same same age, about 10. I was like, Dad, I want to play tackle football. And he said, I'll tell you what. He said, when you get in junior high, you can play tackle football for the school. And I said, All right. So I get in seventh grade, and he knew this. That they don't play tackle football in junior high in Arizona, right? And he knew that the whole time. And I remember asking him, and his reasoning was the same thing. And then later on, when he after Ms. After he got fired in Missouri and he retired back in Tucson, he started the Larry Smith Coaching Academy, and he would have two a year in Tucson, and there'd be about 600 youth coaches there, and it was designed for youth coaches, and it was to teach them technique and fundamentals and the safety of the sport and how to teach. Right. That was a great thing. It was a great thing. Yes. Do you guys um you know staying on tackling? Do you guys do you do a tackle circuit every every day that you have a defensive practice? Well, we'll do a tackle circuit.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

So we have uh three different circuits. One's tackle. So we try to do that, and then when I say if you're not gonna tack, we're not gonna have a tack circuit, then within your individual time, uh execute some tackling, right? Because so like our inside lineback coach, he'll do his his uh some kind of block destruction, and then he'll finish with a tackle, you know, same as I foot, same as I shoulder on the tack on the back. But we do block destruction and then also ball disruption because you know, all trying to teach all a little bit. I mean, we even have a blitz station because you know, if you bring a corner or someone else, a lot of times those guys don't understand how to, you know, avoid a blocker and you know, match the hands of all the little things, right? So it you know, it's interesting, like if I could have my way, and you can't because you don't have enough time, but I would do tackling, ballerships, and and then block destruction every day before they go to the individual.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Right. Um you got a lot of a lot of head coaches, um you know, that are offensive-minded guys in high school. Um and so they've, you know, you and I are fortunate because we come from from that that school of if you can coach one position, you can coach all positions on it, doesn't matter what side of the ball you're on. And but nowadays it's it's kind of like the kids, right? Coaching becomes so specialized where it's like, I'm I you know, I'm a I'm a quarterback's coach, or you know, I'm just a play caller, and and you lose lose that ability to understand that like the fundamentals for every position, it all starts with the hands, eyes, and feet, right? And um, you know, so if you what what would you say to an to a head coach, a young head coach that's offensive-minded, and that's all it's been his experience, you know, he has a defensive coordinator. Um, in regards to even if you're not doing a tackling circuit, that individual drills are done so you finish drills with a tackle. Right. Because, you know, and my dad used to always say this, and it's the truth. I I don't care what anybody says. I was an offensive player, you were an offensive player, but defense wins championships, period. End of discussion. They def you can put up as many points as you want, but defense are gonna win championships. And tackling is tackling and communication are the two key aspects of defensive football. So, how how important is finishing drills with tackling, even if you don't bring them to the ground, like you said?

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Um, it's still body balance and body control and knowing, like, okay, so one of the big things I believe in tackling is that you gotta know your situation, right? If you get a profile side of the guy's face, I've never seen a bulk hair moonwalk. So you would have to take a shot. And then what are you taking a shot at? And I know I was down in Southern California when Pete Carroll started coming out with with the Seahawk, the hawk tackle. I was involved with what I was trying to do. And um so it's you know it's vitally important that you just tell the kids, hey, if you have if you're taking a profile tackle, then you gotta take a shot, same side foot, same size shoulder. If you have to be taking a shot, a tackle where a guy's you know in a in the path with you and and he's not going anywhere, he's coming at you, and you're going to him. Well, first thing you do is you have to lower your eyes and get him down to ball level, right? You gotta get your hips down, you gotta get a flat back position. And then when you strike them, right, you need to roll your hips, and what we say is put your belly button on them, which is another one, you know. So now you're rolling your hips, and right, so what does it do? It keeps your head out of it. So one of the things I'm very I feel blessed because, you know, we've I've been corporated this thing for about 15 years. But in the last, I would say 17 years, I've had two concussions during tackling. Only two. And I know like I've talked to the trainers because like I start jumping on them, like, you know, as far as even the spring, you know, eyes up, then do your holsters, and then roar your hips, you know, that's all the things we're doing right now. And we haven't tackled anybody, but you know, what is it, you know, 15,000 reps acquires skills. So I'm trying to get 15,000 reps. And you know, without hitting somebody, or you know, when you start hitting somebody, at least they understand uh what we're trying to communicate to them.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah. What um if you can think back to I d I don't know, a handful of of head coaches that you've worked for over the years, and you've worked some for some great ones. Um what are a couple of traits, what are a couple of things, two or three things that all those men um did to empower their assistant coaches? Um I wasn't, and the reason I ask is this because as a head coach, I wasn't always successful. I was always cognizant of it and aware, and I always tried to empower the assistants. But a lot of times, I shouldn't say a lot of times, um, but there were times where it just didn't work. And um so I look at myself and say, you know, I there was something that I was lacking that I couldn't empower the assistant coaches.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Um I think what do you yeah, the you know, that's kinda it's that's a great question because I think and I'll say this, coaching is teaching, right? Um and you get such a different atmosphere as far as some coaches, you know, it's roll the ball out and play. Like you said, some guys think it's schematics, but my whole point about being a coach teacher is that you have to go back, you're gonna eventually be one-on-one. That's the same thing you just said you're gonna coach both sides of the ball. You're gonna eventually be one-on-one, and that's gonna take you back to the basic fundamentals. You know, you're gonna have a power step because your first step's directional power, and all of a sudden you've got to break it down. But I think this when I was a decisive coach, for a guy to allow me to take the ball and run with it, like when I was at Paul Pasqualone at Syracuse, I had a guy named Dwight Freed. He said, Oh, Dwight can't, I don't want Dwight to spin. I go, Coach, it's too short to try to hump somebody. So I he said, Well, you're gonna teach him how to spin. And and uh, you know, he had uh I think a shanger Toledo had two, three sacks, and he spun on them all. He goes, Okay, well, I'll need you to it. But he empowered me to definitely learn and have an expertise. And I think that's the big deal, I think, with assistant coaches. Okay, this is what you want, run with it. And then as you see him, you know, if it's developing, give them an attaboy. If it's not developing, ask them to reach back a step and go, like, hey, have you thought about this? Because I, you know, obviously we are so blessed with the experiences we had. Sometimes we know the road it could go down. And, you know, the truth is, is like you really know how do you get better? Is that you make you fail, and then you pick yourself back up and get going again. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

I uh was talking to Mike Bedowski, uh Badoski, who was a all academic, all-American, all-American, all big eight um lineman at Missouri before we got there. And uh he graduated the year we got there. We were talking about some things he he really does with that question, with the powering, he said, you know, chase failure. He said, embrace failure and embrace change. And it's it's the same mindset, right? Like you failure is gonna happen, but that's when you know the greatest changes occur. And I know, you know, to get off top, I mean, we had a discussion, and I told you, you know, a couple months ago, I gave my life to the Lord, and right um, I've always had a deep faith. But, you know, um, prior to that journey, the last two years of getting to that place, I mean, there was failure in my life. And um, I really had to reflect and I embrace that failure, and that's what really created change for me. Um the other thing I was gonna ask you, um, because I think this is a this is this is something. Well, before I tell you that, it's you talk about, we're talking about empowering and and kind of what you said, Jay Hill, who's now the defensive coordinator at Michigan, he was a head coach at at Weber State when my oldest son went up there.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

And my oldest son went to Mesquite, was a safety. And about the fourth game of the year, they were they were having problems in the secondary. And Preston went in against Montana State, did really well. And a guy by the name of Preston Hadley, who's the defense coordinator at Northern Colorado now, was his position coach. And um Hadley went to Jay Hill and was like, hey, I'm gonna start you know Preston Smith this week. And Jay's like, he's a freshman. And Hadley was like, I know coach, but he's the best chance we got. He knows it all, blah, blah, blah. And Jay just looked at him and said, Well, you're his position coach, so it's on you. And Hadley was like, absolutely, and I'm gonna, I'll take care of it. I'm not, you know, I know it's my job, but um I I like that that Paul, that Coach Pascaloni did that because um, you know, that's important to assistants, right? Is have have the autonomy to be able to to to know your players the best and do that. Um you know, I I know for for you and I when it comes to character, you know, we both had our own journey, and and I just kind of hit on mine a little bit. But what do you what do you how do you oh this is a tough question? Because that most people, you know, maybe 50-50, aren't as strong in their faith, don't have the belief in the Lord that someone of that has given their life to the Lord has. Um I think when you when you have given yourself to the life, it's it's easier to find purpose um because you know it's greater than anything or anyone in this whole you know world. Um how do you connect with a kid that may not have that strong of a faith, but has good character? What have you found in in those types of student athletes that really create that moral compass and character-driven mentality when they have it?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

So um, you know, I've talked to some guys and kind of one thing I that I developed is trying to and we call it here a catwalk. I want to know about you. So like um we did action interviews and I asked them questions that weren't so much about football about but about themselves. And then, you know, and I know um, you know, things that I feel like coaches have done with me, they say, hey, you you know, you're gonna get on a kid, no ifs, ands, or buts. But then go put your arm around him and let him know that you care and and the game is one thing, but you are another. So um with guys, yeah, young men, like even our team. So I've been fortunate to work at like five or six, you know, private schools, which were all you know, Christian oriented. But even at those schools, there were young men who didn't believe in God. But I think one is you know, you gotta walk the walk, as far as your faith. And so I think part of that is uh something happened when I was a young, you know, young coach, I was fired up, you know, and I'd honestly cuss him and stuff like that. And the guy said, if your son is beside you, would you be doing that? And it maybe made me take a left turn, you know, and uh I said, okay, I I wouldn't because I don't want my son to have those traits. Um so um I think for me when a young man is getting to know who they are, um but allowing them to speak, not always trying to speak into them. And then um, you know, just you know, like walk the walk, like you care about them, you know. I and that's what the thing I'm trying to make sure I do at at Castleview is that those guys know, you know, I'm coach Moore, but when it comes said and done, we're two men, and and um I'm there to try to serve them, give them my wisdom, my experience to them.

unknown 29:56

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

But I'm not there to, you know, uh kind of shove them in a certain, you know, make a s uh a square peg in a s a round hole.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Right. I uh and obviously, you know, times have changed and they always will. And um, you know, I know when I was in high school, I went to Loyola High School in downtown LA, and uh my my head football coach was a man by this name of Steve Grady, and I and the listeners know this, and I still talk to Coach Grady, he's 80s years old now, but he backed up OJ at SC, and he's about 5'8, and um he would smoke about two packs of cigarettes a day, but he would run four miles every lunchtime. So he was that that man, right? And and it wasn't just me and having grown up in a coaching family, you know, but back when I was in high school, it was um the almost like the harder they were on you, the more that they they ripped your butt, the more you knew that they cared. So they didn't have to put their arm around you. I mean, every once in a while, yeah, it'd be great, but they didn't have to for you to know as a player that they cared about you and that they loved you. And it seems like, you know, you're you're episode 86 or so, and of those 86, 75, 76 of them have been coaches. And of those coaches, probably 95% of them have mentioned that, you know, making sure your kids know that you love them is key, which I totally agree with, and I know you do too. Um, but it's different now, right? It's it's it's different. Um, and you kind of hit on it, but can you just kind of expand on on how you make sure that these kids that you that you you know are a mentor to, are a coach to, you know, um that they confide in, how how do you make sure that they know that you care about them and that you love them?

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Um spend time, you know, how do you spill love, T-I-M-E? Right? That's that's an old one, but it's so true because if your conversation, oh, you know, and look in their eye, you know, when you have a conversation with them. Um so I try to spend time with them, and it's not the guy who's you know, the star, but you know, just you know, like we have a young man that what a servant, you know. He's not he's hurt a little bit, but you know, I'll send time spend time with them. You know, he said he wants a Teresa burrito, so I'll pick that up for him, but just letting them know that you hear them. You know, letting them know that you truly hear them. And, you know, a lot of times you just like come back from a weekend, they say, hey, they're going fishing, hey, would you catch? Because all of a sudden now they understand that, you know, there was intentionality as far as when you had a conversation with them. But you know, I I don't know if I have any magic uh solutions, but I I really try to treat them like they're my son, you know, and then I've heard people say, Well, that's kind of rough, Coach Ford, because you know, you get after your son.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Uh but it's but it's but I mean it's true, right? I mean, you know, I'm I'm a father of three boys. Um I was hard on them. You know, um, I don't have to be as hard on them now, but but they'll tell you at 27, 25, and 23, and all grown men have their careers, you know. Um one has a family, and and the other ones and Bahrain is, you know, he's a Navy diver, and I think we talked about that. And and um, but they'll tell you, they'll still say, you know, dad gives us that look, you know, we he don't even have to say anything. And so I would always tell parents, and I tell the kids, like, if you guys think that I don't love you because I'm hard on you, I I am treating you the exact same way that I treat my own kids.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

You know, and I I think, do you think that there's a separation for you as a father? Is there really a separation between being a dad and being a coach?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Not really. You know, sometimes it, you know, you miss those years. Like part of the things I don't miss about, and I don't miss about coaching pro on college ball was those times that you had with your sons that you would get, you know, if you're a high school coach or you're not there. I remember uh somebody said to me, because I was you know really upset about the job at UCLA, says, you know, something one thing is that you'll never get five years old or six years old or seven years old back again with the your sons and seeing maybe the first time they hit a ball or the first time, you know, even you know, taking for you know for a drive where you allow them for the first time to drive, a lot of times, you know, and that's one thing about having you know a a great mother for them, they're they're sacrificing and do a lot of things that you don't get a chance to do because of your occupation. But when you get a chance to do with them, it's like you know, that's the even part about coming back to Colorado. I can't, I still wake up in the morning and can't believe how majestic it is, you know. Uh it is, you know, and that's just like your child, the first, you know, being there. And even like these kids, like, so the funniest thing I have in coaches is when, you know, you teach a kid a technique, he does it right, he looks up, and you see that little cheesy spot on his face, and he feels like, yeah, buddy, this is all good right now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

So yeah, it's no, it's and you know what? I I watched, you know, my my dad, obviously being a head head coach, you know, college coach from the time I was four years old. Right. Um, you know, he meant missed a lot. Now, he did teach me how to drive a stick shift, and he did, he showed up to as much as he possibly could. And I I was just gracious when he, you know, very gracious and and and full of gratitude when he could because I knew what his job entailed. And there was never any, oh, I might dad it wasn't like that, right? But I saw when um, you know, my ex-wife and I had started having kids, and it was a man I'd never seen before. You know, I mean, he he, you know, and being in that at that level coaching and exactly what you're talking about, and both of us having been there, um, you know, that's where we get those fatherly um, I don't know, just just that that gratitude of seeing a kid's eyes twinkle because he finally got it, right? Um last question I have for you, coach. What what uh, because again, a lot of younger coaches listen and and what do you think are some important reminders or advice um for younger coaches that are getting into it, have been into it for a couple years, um, as far as you know, just how to approach the coaching industry from all levels, really.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

So you know a guy that I coach for his name is Steve Axman.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Steve Axman. So I coach for him in Northern Arizona, right? So we don't go back there where your son's going to school. But um he told me this, and it wound up wow, just uh probably 25 years later, it wound up being the thing that helped me bridge from being a college or a pro guy to uh to feeling comfortable is you know where I was at. So he said, okay, choose something that make make yourself an expert expert at it. Cutting edge. And mine, honest goodness, was pass rush. So I sought out, I had worked with Rod Marinelli uh at Cal, and he's an amazing past rush teacher.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Um funny, real quick, I'm gonna interrupt you. And this is how small that this world is. So, Axeman I've known since I was eight years old, because it goes from my dad to U of A. Rod Marinelli, his daughter is married to a man by the name of Joe Barry, who's a linebackers coach in Miami, who was my roommate at USC, and his father, who just passed away you know less than a year ago, Mike Barry coached at U of A. So Joe and I grew up together too. So that's how small this world is. You just brought up Rod Marinelli. And anyway, I'm sorry. I can't talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

We were talking about that the other day. So um working with Rod, I went down to Tampa Bay because we're at Colorado State, and we did some stuff, and you know, and Rod was starting on the other edge. And then so I went from Colorado State to Syracuse, and we brought up um John Tierlick, you know, a stimulus response guy. And so I was into it, you know, and and so what happened is I kept on building, right? I I would cut up film, I would cut up Pro Bowl tapes, you know, when they had their true pole pole, and watch those guys pass rush. I would take the top sacks of the year and watch those guys do that. In fact, I got a chance to work for the Chargers. I worked with a guy named Jock Césare, and Jock is a D-line coach at the Browns. So he was with Miles Garrett last year, and when Miles had the you know, the HOF type of season in the sacks, but I have a distinct thing inside of me that um pass rush. And so like from 2020 2011 through 2019, you know, and uh once again, this is a Lord God thing. He put me in Phoenix and I wound up, you know, getting the chance to work with JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, uh Cameron Hayward, Cameron Howard, Cameron, I mean Jordan, uh uh wow. I had just all these guys come through and wound up, you know, and then the white had come out of that little factory time, but it's all because of axe, because axe told me that, and I kind of ran with it. So anything I could find about it, like, you know, hey, stop the run, stop the run, stop the run. Hey, how about pass rush? Stop the run, stop, you know. And um, and I think I'm not sure if guys really do that. You know, like you said, they're trying to get to right, they're trying to get to the scheme of it. But guess what? Eventually, I'm gonna give a guy's blitzing, and he's one of them over the tackle. He has to figure out a way to deflect those hands, understand how he wants to contort his upper body while his lower body's going in another direction. And how do you train that in the offseason for them to have that expertise in the season?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Yeah, that's great. That's great advice. I got one question for you. Was it fun coaching against axe when you were at Chandler and he was at Perry?

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Oh, how funny is that? Oh, because he would call me up at the game, he says, you know, you're such a pain in the butt with that little nose tackle twist. I go, Axe, that's just for you, boy. But he's a good bad boy, that bookwriting dude, you know, and yeah, yeah, I mean, I really call him our father of football because like we had some great times, and uh wow. I mean, you're talking about great head coaches. I had a gas of a time with him.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Well, I I put I put Axe in that category of of genius football coaches, quite honestly. I mean, he's there's very few that I think you know you put in that category where where where cognitively he's just he's just a genius.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

And he he's definitely in that category. And I learned that at a very, very young age. I you could see it. So uh, well, coach, God bless you. I I I'm I'm uh full of gratitude with with you coming on, and it's been an honor. And um, I'll text you, but but I'd like to you know take you to lunch before we leave here in a couple weeks before we move.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

So okay, yeah. I mean that that would be great, but it's also uh I'm extremely grateful and appreciative that you had me on. I mean, it's always great to talk. Well, it's always, you know, and then how you developed into who you are and the Lord is giving you the opportunity. But once again, it's a God thing because, right, um, you saw that I was here, and then all of a sudden there's so many dots we connected so fast. I know. But it was it's it's it's you know, you're like a dear friend. I mean, and right we may never talk to anybody for like 50 years, but all of a sudden, how how quick, you know, axe, your dad, you know, Marinelli, Joker, you know, just all the people that we come in, you know, got a chance to know through God's uh plan. And uh so I really appreciate the opportunity to come on.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Well, thank you. Hey, uh, hold on for one quick second. Sure. But thank you again, Coach. Yeah, no problem.