#89 Justin Conyers

Episdoe 89 - Coach Justin Conyers is the Head Football Coach at Hickman High School in Columbia, Missouri. Justin shares how building a successful football program begins with establishing an unwavering standard, developing intentional leaders, and creating a culture where accountability, relationships, and character drive everything the team does. He reflects on his coaching journey—from being mentored by influential coaches and helping build Battle High School from the ground up to returning to his alma mater and transforming Hickman Football through consistent leadership and clear expectations. Justin also discusses the importance of investing in coaches, empowering player leadership through structured development, treating every athlete with fairness and respect, and why lasting success is built by developing people before pursuing championships.

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SPEAKER_01 0:13

Like I said, two boys married there, or two boys born there. My my ex-wife graduated from law school there. You know, ton of friends. I I it's it's probably my favorite place that I've lived. Of all the places I've been, I enjoyed it that much. So it's it's it's an honor to have you.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

To raise kids. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate that. I know the people you've spoken to, and uh man, I feel like I I'd be I'm honored to be on here. Yeah, it's a great company to be within. You know, I'm I'm good friends with a lot of those guys, especially AJ Fodele. Um, you know, we'll talk about him today, I'm sure. And Andy Hill, I know very well, and also Brock Alevo. So uh if you're if you're able to be in a in a room with those guys at one time, I'm the one that feels honored. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Well, we're in the same circle. It's funny. And you growing up in Columbia, you know, so I'll go ahead and and and introduce you. Um Justin Conyers, you're the head football coach at Hickman High School in Columbia, Missouri. This is a special one for me. Just I got chills, but just because it's Columbia. That'd be great. I do too.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

It's uh, but man, you've you've uh you've been coaching for quite a while, and I'll get into it, but just so people know, um, was your first head coaching job at Battle? At Battle High School? So you started that program too, correct? I want to talk about that too, because I've had the the opportunity to start uh a a school, um, and it's it's a lot of work. But so you were the head coach at battle, um, you were also the head coach at Hallsville High School, and then you graduated from Hickman way back when, and uh came back to your alma mater to uh yeah, and came back in the year before you got there, you guys were 0-10, and you came in and um four wins, four wins your first year, and um beat Rockbridge, which was always big. Um but anyway, so yeah, so I appreciate you being on, man. Um you know, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

I appreciate you having me. Like I said, I'm excited to speak with you and be on here. I've watched your other podcast, so this is exciting stuff for me to be a part of. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Hey, tell us a little bit kind of about your journey. I mean, uh you graduated from Hickman High School, you were you were a multi-sport athlete, yes. We all kind of were.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Um I played baseball and football in high school.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

And then where did you go from there? I know where you went, but you can fill everybody in.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Yeah. So I went to UCM, uh, used to be Central Missouri State back in our time, back in the day. I was down there for a year and a half and then I transferred to Westminster um, you know, midway through my sophomore season. And uh that's where I ended up graduating. I played three years over there at Westminster. Um, I started off, you know, I was in high school. I started off as a quarterback, I moved to uh wide receiver, and then I also played defensive back. So whenever I got over to Westminster, um, you know, I just didn't want to do anything to get on the field and play and help the team run. And I mentioned that. And so they're starting tailback the year before, he was an all-American. It's a big Greek school, uh, very fraternity heavy. Like 80, 80 plus percent of kids that go to Westminster, they're in Greek life. And so he chose not to play his senior year. And they needed a they needed a running back, and they saw my physicality when I catch the football and would run with it. And so they asked me if I'd be interested. And I said, Yeah, guys, I'll play. Well, then the next year I played for uh our defensive coordinator was a guy named Mike Daly. He graduated from the University of Iowa. Um he was he was also an all-American line.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

I'm gonna enter, I'm gonna interrupt you because I played a year with Mike at Iowa, so I I didn't know he was your coach. So you know what kind of guy he is, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yeah, small world. And and and he used to talk, you know, you know, talk to me every day about why are you over there? You know, he's like, come to the dark side, get your butt over on defense. And so finally, going into my junior season, I just said, you know, coach, I'm I'm ready. Do you need to have the talk or do I? And he said, I'll take care of it. And I moved to DB and never looked back and um, you know, ended up being a first team all conference guy, captain for us two years in a row. Um, we won a um, you know, conference championship. Uh, first game I ever played for Mike, I get two interceptions and uh two picks in the game, we win the game, and he's like, I've been telling you for two years to bring me back over here. So uh he was very instrumental in the way um that I worked. You know, I learned a lot of things from Mike, uh, my approach to practice habits of not just going out there and getting by every day, but getting better every day. And I just always wondered, how did he end up at Westminster College? You know, um it's such a unique place to be, number one. And we had such a high-level guy, number two, you know, like so. For our past to be able to cross there in college, um, you know, he really taught me a lot about myself and how, like I said, how to work. And uh he was a huge weight room guy, and we took that stuff very, very seriously for those that of us that wanted to. And so that kind of just got bred into me, man, of uh of how I was going to be my personality as a coach moving forward is a lot of Mike Bailey in there too.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

You know, it's funny. I mean, I always say the coaching fraternity is so, so small. And I haven't heard that name in 30, 30 years. But the minute you said it, you know, again, chills. I mean I saw your face live up, so I figured you might have, you might know a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

So, well, his wife, Tracy, okay, she was the head girls basketball coach there. And Mike was living in the basement of her house. And so we used to always joke all the time. I want to say I had a little hand in this matchmaking here, okay? So um, I I always used to joke. I was like, You ever go upstairs, coach? And he's like, nope, she's got a boyfriend. I'm respectful, I don't. And uh, and I said, I have a feeling one day that's gonna change, coach. You know, just giving him giving him crap a little bit. And uh he said one one day he came back in, he looked at me, he said, She opened the door and yelled down and asked if I like spaghetti. And I said, I know exactly where that went. And so from then on, those two were a match. Uh, they they have two you know awesome children, Jackson, and I can't remember his daughter's name, but she's at Drury playing basketball. And I mean, he was at uh he was out in Arkansas State, he's at UNI now. He's a quarterback. I mean, they got some some athlete. So um I just want to say that I had a little bit to do with that matchmaking process of putting those two together.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

So yeah, you should take credit for that. So when you graduated from Westminster, did you get into coaching immediately or how did that work?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

I did. And I want to go back a little bit. Um, when I came back home for the summertime, I'd always go up to Hickman to work out. And um I played for Coach Greg Nesvit. Um, he was my my high school head football coach, and uh, you know, he went on to coach college football at Central Methodist, Central Missouri State, and now, you know, was the head coach at Truman State as well and just retired two years ago. His son Kellen took over that program. And I came back, and you know, and Coach Nez and I always had a had a great relationship, you know. Um, you know, to me, there's two men in my life, you know, is my dad and it's Coach Nez. You know, it was a close very second, just the respect I had for him and the way he did things and the way we learned in high school. But long story short, he said, you know, hey, what are you gonna do when you graduate, Conyers? And I was like, um, I was at that time, I was a business major. I'd probably be stuck in a cubicle somewhere. I'm a talker, I'm a people person, so I probably would have got fired very quickly if I would have gone that route. But he said something um to me that day that just it really resonated with me. And it was on the lines of, he said, you know, Justin, I've been doing this X amount of years, and I never felt like I've been to work a day in my life. And I I'm dead serious. I drove home from that workout in complete silence, and I just thought about it and I said, you know what? I'm gonna switch my major. I'm gonna be a high school football coach and I'm gonna teach PE. And I told my parents they thought I was crazy. I mean, I'm I'm going into my junior year. You know, I'm all I'm I'm in my major classes here. Um my wife was my girlfriend at the time. She thought I was crazy. You're gonna do what? You're gonna be a teacher? And I was like, yep, that's what I'm gonna do. So I went back, talked to my advisor at Westminster, and I told her she was the third one. She said, now you know you're probably gonna have to go to school an extra year. Well, I had an extra year of eligibility, so it worked out good for me. But I did because of all of the classes that you have to take to get certified to become, you know, an educator in the state of Missouri, you know, through DESI. So, long story short, that man, that day, with that little, I mean, just a little conversation that he never thought probably was gonna have any kind of impact, he changed the entire course of my life. And um, if it wasn't for that conversation, to be honest with you, I have no clue what I'd be doing today. So very grateful for that conversation. Uh, I tell him every time I see him, you know, I give him a hug and I thank him because I say, I don't think you really know how impactful that little bitty conversation was for me that day. So um, but then fast forward, my first my first job is actually with AJ Fodele at Rockbridge High School. So that's where AJ and I we hook up. Barry Odom had just taken uh position at the University of Missouri at the time. Um he went over to be the director of football operations, and so he was the head coach prior. And a lot of people don't know that that Barry was the head football coach at Rockbridge.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah, Rockbridge.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

And so AJ was his AJ was his assistant in OC. And so he took over. AJ did. I come in, I'm doing student teaching, and um I just man, I I'm one of those guys, and I always tell young kids these days to get into coaching, they they talk too much. They don't do enough listening. They want to have an opinion too early. And I was a sponge. I would be at everything that he, you know, any any kind of workout he had. All I wanted to do was learn and listen and and try to get better because this I knew this is what I wanted to do. Um, I just didn't think I'd have ever have the opportunity to do it there. So um we're in P class one day, and AJ comes up to me and he says, Hey, I got a job for you. And, you know, I'm I'm the student teacher, so I'm thinking, hey, I'll go set the game up, I'll go clean up the balls. What do you need me to do, coach? And um he says, How would you feel about being my defensive coordinator next year? Now, mind you, I'm 23 years old. I mean, I played the back end. Um, I'm a quarterback, so I know a little bit about defenses, but I mean, I didn't know anything about Fruct 7 football. And um, I said, Are you serious? And he said, I'm dead serious. And so uh I ended up being his defensive coordinator for nine nine seasons. Um, and I tell you what, I I thank him once again. And he said, he he says every time we just we text every single week multiple times, and he said, To this day, I will tell you it's the best decision and hire that I've ever had, and that makes me feel very honored. Um, he just knew when he saw he saw something in me where he knew this is what I was going to do for the rest of you know for my career. He knew it. And I didn't even know it, but he knew it, you know. And if you know AJ like I know AJ, that man is a super intelligent human being. And I thank my lucky stars um that he gave me that opportunity because man, it really shaped me once again in who I am in my my coaching career.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Good. I, you know, I I I've always and my dad used to always say this that um if you're a football coach, you're a football coach. And I I've met more offensive-minded guys that are defensive coordinator than I have, you know, guys that grew up on the defensive side of the ball. And and probably some of the best defensive coordinators I've ever been around, seen, talked to, um, played against, coached against, were guys that played on the offensive side of the ball because you learn how to you you you have that offensive mentality. So when you scheme, it's it's a you're able to put yourself on the other side of the ball and say, well, this is how I would answer this. So, and you know, my ex-father-in-law was a legendary high school coach in the state of Arizona. And um I when I first started coaching high school, I went to coach for him, and he's like, Okay, you're coaching the D-line. I'm like, I've never coached a D line in my life. He's like, Well, figure it out. And and again, it goes back to every position, you know, it starts with your your hands and your feet, and you go from there. So um well, that's yeah, that's good. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

I was just saying the crazy thing is now I'm the OC. Ever since I've been a head coach, I'm the offensive coordinator because I knew if we didn't score points, we weren't gonna win games. And if we don't win games, I'm not gonna keep a job. Um, so the flip side of that is is for you know all those seasons, every team, and we were old school. We didn't have Huddle back then. We didn't even have a DVS editing software system when I first started. I literally broke film down, and this is 04, mind you. I literally broke film down with a blank sheet of 8x11 paper. I would pause it on the first play of the offense and I would draw the formation and I would write what the concept was at the top left corner if it was run, type the top right corner if it was a pass. And then I would tally, and then I'd draw a line and I would draw another one. I didn't even, I wasn't even savvy enough yet to draw things and excel and pre-print these things out. You know, I was doing it by hand, and so that broke that really taught me a lot because I had to be so meticulous to make sure I had everything broken down and draw correctly. Um, but I would put things away, you know, in the in the Conyers file of like, man, I really like what they do here. I love, I, you know, I always thought that when teams got into multiple personnel packages where they changed actual personnel and they would go from 10 personnel to 11 personnel to now 12 and 13 and then 22. And then I was having to figure out am I gonna match that or are we just gonna line up with our dudes and figure out how to defend it? And I found that was always a problem for me. So I knew that was gonna be part of my identity when I became a head coach was you know, multiple personnel packages. So just little things like that, you know, as you go on, you never think that it's gonna mean anything, but it was very impactful, you know, of who I became as an OC. You know, I became a head coach.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

I I I am used to always laugh when I was coaching with other coaches because people don't know football coaches, we're the biggest thieves around. The amount of stuff that we steal from other people, you know, and the other thing I like what you're saying is not to get schematical, but I think it's important for high school coaches, is every year that I was a head coach, I would have to really, in my offensive coordinator, be like, you got too much stuff in. Well, coach, we only have this. No. Instead of having 10 different runs or 12 different, you know, five-step drop back passes or you know, deeper passes, pass concepts and 10, you know, quick hitters, have six or seven, and then you know, the the personnel in the formation packages need to change because to a defense that's a different look. You know, you go three by one, two by two, you're rate running the same concept, but it but to the defense, you know, they're basing it off formation, they're basing it off of you know, numbers. And um, it could be the same concept, but it looks completely different. So I always thought that was super important. Um, so where with your first head coaching job, let's talk about that. Because I uh I opened up a school out here, um, was there for two years, and you know, and it had nothing to do with it being a new school, it had to do with administration, and I just felt like out here in the state of Arizona, you know, it's not the Midwest. And so administrators, principals don't have a lot of knowledge about how important athletics is, and athletic directors are now business people rather than former coaches. And, you know, you lack support, you know, we know that parents are gonna gripe and complain. Um, that's a part of it, and and that's okay. Um, you know, kids have quite honestly gotten softer or different than when we were playing um growing up. And you're dealing with a lot of stuff, and that admin support's super important. So I just got out of it altogether. I got you know, I felt like my passion and and my ability to serve the way I knew how to serve um just it wasn't taken anymore. But um talk to talk to the coaches out there about what it was like to start a program from the ground up. Good, bad, everything.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Oh, I was 32, 33 years old. I mean, think about that for a minute. And you know, you're giving this this Taj Mahal, you know, $75 million um, you know, high school being built on the east side of Columbia. I was beautiful. I mean, and to be able to have a hand um, you know, in everything. I mean, that right there, I think my head coaching path and career would be a lot different if I wasn't given this opportunity just because of what it taught me about. Like, I mean, we had to, I mean, you're you're going down to girdles and mouthpieces and knee pads all the way up to the big thing. I mean, I had a budget. We had to buy everything from this program, brand new everything. So, number one, you had to be organized, you had to know your stuff, you had to know what you needed to know and get get the right stuff for your program, get your kids outfitted. Uh, and it's a once-in-a-lifetime type type opportunity for you to get all of the fun toys too, for the, you know, for all your field equipment. So I pretty much did get told no for a lot of things. I mean, it was it was really nice, um, such a great opportunity. Now, the hard thing was, you know, you already had two public high schools in in town, and you were drawing a hard line at the time and saying, okay, these kids are gonna be coming to you. And a lot of them came from where I'm at now. A lot of them did come from Hickman High School. And so there was this kind of this feel of did they really truly want to be a part of what we were doing over there, or were they gonna try to find a way to stay? So you had to find a way to build excitement and a culture around your program. Uh, I mean, immediately. Because if you didn't, you were gonna have a bunch of uninterested people that did not want to be a part of what you were trying to do. So, number one is I went out and I hired the absolute best staff that I possibly could. And my administration was fully behind me. They supported me. They didn't tell me who I could and could not hire. But obviously, guys that are good people, you know what I mean, to be around kids. They got to obviously pass legally background checks and all those things. But I had, I mean, Atia Ellison, Carlos Hall, Mike Morris, Zach Abrams. I mean, we had former Mazoo players out the wazoo, NFL guys on staff. I had big name people that just really drew attention right away to our program. Um, and I thought that was big. And I didn't purposely go and do that. A lot of these guys sought me out. Um, you know, number one is, you know, so Mike Morris, who played for the University of Missouri, you know very well, um, is now a best friend of mine. And we actually lived in the same neighborhood, but didn't really hang out in the same circle, knew each other, but never honestly had a conversation. And their house was for sale. They were getting ready to move out to the south side of town and go to Rock Ridge because they knew, once again, battle was being built. They were unsure, they were making that move. And so one day there's not a for sale sign in the yard anymore. You just walk my dogs by there every day. And uh went home, told my wife, and uh, I tell you, man, this is a true story. I don't know Mike's number. I'm messaging him on Facebook Messenger, he's finding my number, and we're texting each other at almost the same time. And that's how our paths crossed was to get him on board. Um, and he's been the best thing offensive line coach I think I ever could have got, you know. And now it's like having a second head coach on our in our program. You know, and I think that's vital uh to any head coaches. And what I'm saying here is you've got to have people that you entrust in, and you gotta have people that are our culture guys and are the program guys, and that they're gonna give you everything and your vision. And these guys did that for me. Um, and we were able to have a lot of success very, very early on uh at Battle High School. And what we were able to do there, it's a dream, guys. I'm telling you, um, if I would have been a betting man, I could have bet everything I had, and I never would have thought that we would have been able to do what we did in our six years there. Um it was it was really crazy. That first year, you know, we weren't playoff eligible. We could only play nine games. So a lot of people and a lot of new programs, what they're gonna do is they're gonna they're gonna go out and they're gonna build you a JV schedule, you know, a sub-varsity schedule. Well, I took the other approach. I said, I don't care what our win-loss record is. We're taking kids that might have played varsity football at Hickman, bringing them over here. We're gonna give them the opportunity to go out and play, play at a high level on Friday nights. So we were um, we we searched everywhere, high and low. I mean, we played any class that we had an open week. We scheduled them and we played them. We played some Illinois schools, uh, we played some Missouri schools, but we went out that year and we played nine varsity football games. And I think that really gave us a base for where we were uh in our program.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Did you guys start with uh senior? I mean, did you have any seniors? Did you start like when I opened this school, we had about 10 sophomores and everybody else was freshmen? You know, so we did start with a JD schedule, but then our second year, we were had the toughest schedule in our re in our division in the state of Arizona, and we were playing with 90% sophomores.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Yeah, we did not have seniors that first year. So we had freshmen, incoming freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. Um, and people thought I was crazy, you know, to go out of schedule the way that I did. Uh, but it worked out for us, you know, and so it gave those kids, and I told them that I was gonna bring them a varsity football schedule. And I think whenever you start something, and the way I've always been is I said, Hey, you can call me a lot of things in life, but you can't call me a liar because if I if I say something, I we're gonna do something, I'm gonna be a man of my word and we're gonna get it done. And we were able to go out and do that. And, you know, I remember talking to all the media outlets, you know, obviously there's a lot of hype around a new high school and a lot of attention. And, you know, everybody sat around and told me that we'd never have a winning season, um, you know, probably for the first five years. Don't expect it. You know, just try to build the program the best you can. You know, I'm I'm taking in. And you know, of course, I'm young, you know, I'm confident at the time and I'm Like, we're gonna go out here and we're gonna get it done. And we ended up being five and four that first year, you know, so we didn't have a losing season. And we were in two more ball games, to be real honest with you, that we probably could have won, but we just didn't have any tackle of senior leadership. Yeah, or leadership really at all. We're still trying to identify that.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

So I I before I get into that leadership aspect, because I think that's important, because I think a lot of people, a lot of coaches nowadays will identify leaders, but when it comes to developing them, they don't necessarily have a system to do that. But before we get into that, um having to build a culture and traditions and standards from the ground up, again, great, great opportunity. Um, it's a it's a neat experience because you get to implement what you want. Did that help you when you went to Hickman? And I'm not saying anything about the prior coach to you getting there, um, but when you go in 0-10, some things need to be fixed. Um, did you find that it was easier because of your experience opening up battle to step into Hickman having gone, you know, O for the year before and really get kids to buy in and get parents and administration and school and community and everybody to buy in?

SPEAKER_02 23:19

It was, you know, having that experience of not only of battle high school and what we were able to accomplish there, um, but then going to Hallsville and doing the same thing there right away, you know, going there and having the instant success that we were able to have, you know, take a three and seven team and go into a 10 and three team the very next year with the same kids on the roster, you know, very small senior class that left before us, and doing that multiple years in a row. Um, and what it became was the standard is the standard. The standard doesn't deviate. You know, and so when we when we set that standard of who we are, who we're gonna be as people on and off the field, and it's more than the X's and O's, and that's why we're talking about this, is like it's it has nothing to do with the wins and the losses. It has everything to do with are you are you developing these young men to be better people? Because when they become better people and they have a higher standard and they know what the standard is, and you're teaching them how to be that standard day in and day out, the wins and losses, I think, truly take care of themselves. Now, obviously, I'm not saying that you can't, you know, don't need talent. We know that. You know, the Jimmies and the Joes matter. Um, but for us, it was just creating a standard, and we brought that standard with us to Hitman. And the big thing I saw was, and nothing against the the former staff, but there the standard deviated based on who you were. Right. You know, if you were big time, didn't matter if you missed practice, didn't matter if you were late, didn't matter if you cussed a coach out. Like when I get there, that's not flying. And the minute they see that, and you take the big dog when he doesn't do what the standard is, you know, not doing what he's asked to do and meet the standard, and he's treated like everybody else, all of a sudden, people say, Well, he he he's not playing around. That's this is what he means. And I think being able to set where we were and bring that standard in and having our expectations of how we were gonna act in the hallways the minute we walked in that school, how we were gonna act when we were in the community, how we were gonna act at practice, how we're gonna act around everybody with our admin and our classes, um, and and everybody in our building understanding that we meant business too, and they could reach out to us with any issues we're having, and we would take care of it. Um, I think that's been what has really built our culture at Hickman so far.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Good. Um, yeah, my internet's. Can you see me okay, Coach?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

I can. You're kind of coming in and out, but I can't. Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Um we'll pause every now and then. It'll buff her, yeah. Sorry about that. Um so what I I read something, something about dog, D-A-W-G. Do you guys still do you still use that?

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah. Um, so those those kind of encompass your standards, right? Yep. Discipline, attitude, will, and grit.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

That's what the dog stands for. And on my shirt, you can see we have dogs because I mean, let's keep it real. We're the cupis, okay? Uh, I can say this because I went to high school there, so I don't feel bad saying it, but there's nothing tough about being a Cupie. So back in our day, we were called the Dog Pound. Um, and you know, that's we called ourselves the Coup Dogs. And that's just kind of, I brought that tradition back whenever I came in, and the kids have really like, you know, they've rallied around it, um, you know, you know, just saying, hey, Cupies on three is not real exciting, you know what I mean? But we get a breakdown with family and dogs and all this all the time. And so we said, you know what? Um, let's let's talk about what does it mean to be a dog. And so that's where we came up with this, and we brought this there. I've never had it anywhere else. And so we brought that there, and we've, you know, we put it on our shirts and our kids understand it. We we kind of hashtag it when we post stuff on Twitter. Um, you know, it's kind of our little mantra, and the kids are really, you know, wrapped their minds around it and they they live up to the standard. Uh, I think the big thing that we do is is like we talk about the standard. What is the standard? You know, you can sit here all the time and and we talk about leaders and leadership. And one of the things that I think that us as as older people do a very poor job of is we appoint leaders, but we don't teach them how to be leaders. We don't give them the tools necessary to go out and lead the way that we want them to lead. You're a captain, you're a captain, you're a leader, you're at the line, but but why? Why are those people chosen? Um, and so I think if you explain it and you break it down to kids, the why behind it, uh, I think that we've had that's really helped our kids understand what our thought process is as coaches, too.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah. Uh, but but real quick, like talk to us about because I've spent the last year, you know, is I've formed an LLC, a business that centers around leadership, character, and culture, systems, not just problem solving, that kind of stuff, but actual systems. Um, started a foundation uh that deals with that kind of thing too. So tell me, tell us about how you develop leaders, what your system's like to do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Um first and foremost, we do a what's called a leadership council. And in the leadership council, those are we have 13 members each year. And those 13 members are chosen by the coach and staff based on, you know, obviously all of our evaluations of who we feel needs to be on there. And there's sometimes, even in those kids, we'll pick one or two kids in that in that group that not necessarily meets our standard to be on the council, but we feel really needs to be a part of the leadership council, if that makes sense, because we feel like it's gonna it's gonna be better for them. It's gonna teach them how to be leaders. And so um I have a master's degree from the University of Missouri, and it's a it's called positive coaching, but really it's it's sports psychology. Um, and so long story short, I I'm very passionate about this piece of what we do. And so we have lessons and we bring our kids in, and um, you know, we have notebooks we issue to every kid, and we sit around and and we just talk different topics on on the leadership process. And, you know, we have we have a little, you know, we have our whole curriculum of of how we break it down. And it's been very fun just to watch kids learn and and go outside the realm of the X's and O's of football and open their eyes to like just certain things that they do that's just not good leadership skills. And so to be able to really like break it down and give them the tools, as I was saying, necessary earlier, I think that it's something that obviously our kids have bought into. And then we, it's their team at the end of the day. It's not my team, it's their team. And so we allow them to have a voice within that. And that's why we do 13 in case it ever comes down to a vote. Um, and I will tell you, we have I've given them the platform and and the the floor on multiple things that have been very important in our program here at Hickman, and it's never even been close. I mean, our our it's normally 13-0. And the last time that I had a big decision to make, it was 12-1, you know? And so giving them that voice too, uh, and making the team really feel like it's theirs, I believe that it's it's made our leadership piece amongst our group better. And it's not just seniors in this group. I think a lot of people, I've been watching a lot of things on Twitter lately, and everybody's, you know, recognizing their seniors and and saying they're the leaders. Well, I don't think that leadership has a grade, you know. I'm not sure that a freshman's really ready yet, but I will tell you, we have some dang good sophomores that are really good leaders. They do everything they're asked to do. They're good people, they really fit within our council. And so when we choose that, it it doesn't, it has no grade. Like I said, it's not just all seniors. And uh, I think that's been good too because there's voices and you you plant little seeds, right? And then they take it back and they take it to their groups and their clicks that they have amongst the team, and it kind of starts to spread a little bit, kind of like wildflowers. So um that's kind of our process and how we do it. Obviously, it can be more detailed than that, but it's uh it's it's been good. It really has. It's been something we've done in all three, all three spots. I've been a head coach at good.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

What what kind of conversations do you have with your coaches um in regards to just connecting with with the players? Because, you know, transparency, um, them knowing you that you care, um, all that kind of stuff, you know, people talk about, but it's really, you know, that connection that that that starts that process. So what what kind of conversations do you have with your coaches in regards to that and how to connect with with the kids?

SPEAKER_02 31:53

You know, the big thing for us is number one is uh to be demanding without being demeaning. Um, you know, you get that from Rip Maguire, if you know Rip Maguire, the University of Missouri. And that when I first heard that that term, um, you know, I kind of was like, man, what is this positive coaching, soft stuff, you know, you know, you can't, kids aren't gonna buy into that. But he's like, he looked, I mean he and he could see it and he could sense it. And he was just saying, you know, coach, if you're not already doing stuff to be a positive coach, then you're probably not gonna have very much success. So for us, it's just been the fact of, you know, making sure when we're building these relationships, we're building positive relationships with our kids and knowing that those kids know that they can really entrust in you, you know, and everything that you do and having an open door policy. And sometimes you've got to teach, I found it's harder with my younger coaches, which you think would be more connected and not want that negativity in the in the interaction, but it's harder with the younger coaches and and the today's coaching than I think it's ever been, because I don't know if they're getting that type of coaching from before, but that's how they want to come back and they want to have this, you know, almost like this hour over these kids. And I'm like, that just that's not gonna work. You know, those kids you're too close in age, there's gonna be no respect. There's gonna be more of a fight back. So my thing is if you want respect, then you need to give respect. And that's I think the number one thing that I tell all my coaches. And when I was younger, it was just kind of fly by night, fly by the hip. You know, we would just, we just went to practice and we worried about the X's and O's. And the older I get, I have a lot of former coaches on staff. And it's funny because you will hear them say to me how much different I am. You would have, you would have not reacted to that that way whenever it was us. And I said, Yeah, but I also was 34 years old. And I also have learned a lot along the way of how to how to be a better coach. You know, we were so wrapped up in in winning ball games that we weren't wrapped up in character development. You know what I mean? So that's one of the things too, I think is huge, is is really bringing those coaches onto your staff that have played for you and there getting to see how much you've changed in this process over the years as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

100%. All right, last question I have for you, coach. Um being a parent, right? Um, how has that helped you manage parents in general of kids that that play for you and kids in the classroom?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Well, I got to deal with a with a spouse at home, you know, if her son don't get playing time and he's not doing all the things, then I got to deal with that one too. So that's that's been enlightening, you know. But no, um, no, all jokes aside, it it really has. Number one is like, I think sometimes too, as coaches, and I'll say this to all you, all the coaches that listen to this, is when you have your own kid, you almost treat them different. You almost hold them to a different, completely different standard because you almost feel guilty if you speak about their success. Right. Um, and that's been something I've done a lot better job with of saying, you know what? Because my son's a really good football player, guys. I mean, he's a really good player. He's an all-state kid. Um, he's earned the right. He's earned the right for his dad to say things about him that are good, just like I do all my other players. Um, and I think that's really having a kid in the program, it's it's helped me just kind of step back and be like, man, I can see where parents are coming from. You know, like when they're when because I get upset sometimes whenever there's certain things I don't like that's going on with our coaches in my in my own kid, right? And so now I can kind of as a parent, I can see that too. So I've always had the open door policy, you know, with with parents. Uh I think everybody we talk about the 24-hour rule. I don't want you coming up and and nagging at me right after a ball game. But when I step back and I look at the bigger picture now, honestly, being a father, it's helped me really do that with a better landscape and a better clear mind of like, okay, I can see where maybe this is rubbed the wrong way. And how can we, how can we have this conversation to make it better with kids and the parents? So uh, because my whole thing is I think we all know this, you're never gonna appease 100% of the people. But whenever you have everybody in the program bought in, like I said, once again, to your standard, and they're all on board, um, I feel like your life's a lot easier as a football coach.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Well, yeah, I you know, from a father's standpoint, I I coached, I coached my two older kids too, and and uh it's tough. But at the same time, you can step back and see things from a different light. Well, um, hey man, I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

You know, the biggest thing for me is Go ahead, go ahead, coach. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate the time. And uh no, I was just gonna say last thing I want to say is, you know, I just want to hit home on that. You know, having your kid is like, man, coaches out there that have your kid. Um, my son has never played because his dad is the head coach. You know, my son came from class three football to a class six program, and he earned the right to play. I think I don't coach his position. And I told my position coach, I said, here's the deal. I said, you play the best kid. And obviously he earned his way on the field as a sophomore for us there. And that was a big deal to come from class three football in little old Hallsville, and you're playing on the big stage on Friday night in class six. And like I said, you know, you almost felt guilty because you didn't want people thinking he's playing because he's your kid. Uh, and I I've learned the last two years, you know, he's going into a senior year this year. And uh one of the things that I have done a lot better with is I've really stepped back and enjoyed the moments this summer with him, the recruiting trips and and all the time that we're spending, because um one of the hardest things for me was when the young man didn't ride to practice with me any longer, you know. I mean, we spent from the time he was little all the way until he couldn't, you know, until he could drive riding to and from school together every single day. And so, you know, I I want to make sure that we as coaches, we we don't overlook our own kid, you know, when they deserve the limelight at times and they learn and they deserve to be talked about just like you talk about all your other kids. So coach, I I appreciate you having me on. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah. Just hang on a second, okay, Justin?

SPEAKER_00 38:11

I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. This thing's gonna be the death of me.